Kitchen Knives Review

Edge Pro Apex Sharpener Review

Background.

 

I’m a home cook and have used Wusthof and Sabatier knives since the mid-nineties,

maintaining them on a Chef’s Choice 110 sharpener.  The finger guards on these knives

prevent sharpening all the way to the end of the heel, so over time, a protruding bump

will develop that prevents the edge from fully contacting the cutting surface, and

grinding this bump off becomes necessary.  I decided to replace the Wusthofs with knives

that did not have finger guards, and first tried a couple of Globals, a parer and a

vegetable knife, upgrading the Chef’s Choice to one that would handle the fifteen

degree edge bevel.  An amazing improvement, but I wasn’t sure I wanted to stay with the

Globals and I began to look for something else.  I thought I’d found an alternative in

Shun, and I was a hairsbreadth away from buying one, when I found a link to a knife

forum and ’discovered’ the world of Japanese knives and waterstones.

 

Why did I buy an Edge Pro?  I found that though I had become moderately proficient at

freehand sharpening the existing edge bevel, I was not proficient enough to be able to

produce a really flat bevel that ran the whole way from tip to heel when thinning the

edge.  I also wanted to experiment with microbevels, and for me, it was going to take a

long time to reach that level of proficiency.  The Edge Pro system promised to provide

an easier way.

 

Impressions.

 

I purchased the Apex 2 from ’Chef Knives to Go’ with an additional 1K grit stone and a

Shapton Pro 2K for the EP on November 16th.  It was delivered three days later, on the

19th.  Thanks for the fast and free FedEx shipping, Mark!

 

I’ve since added Shapton Pro 220 and 5K stones, and a Naniwa Chocera 3K. Shortly after I

got these added stones, the supply of custom stones was interrupted, so my plans to get

additional stones had to be placed on hold.

 

Setup of the Apex is well documented in the included printed instructions, and takes

only a few minutes.  Contrary to some opinions I have read, it is not a PITA to set up,

and after getting accustomed to setting it up, I found it somewhat quicker than setting

up for freehand sharpening with waterstones.

 

I was impressed by the quality of the custom plastic mouldings used in the assembly of

the Edge Pro Apex.  It’s evident that there is no ’corner cutting’ in the materials or

design. When not in use, the Apex is compact, something to consider if you live in an apartment,

or have limited storage. The Apex, with all accessories, fits into the included Cordura

case and measures 18" x 6" x 2", or about the same size as a small 8-knife roll.

 

The included DVD was very helpful in describing the sharpening technique, even though it

used the Pro model and not the Apex model. There is enough difference between the Apex

and Pro models that it would be worthwhile if Ben Dale recorded another video sequence

using the Apex model, although the basic operation is the same.

 

The stock EP stones are more than capable of producing a razor sharp edge.  The jump

from the 320 EP stone to the 1000 EP stone is not difficult to make.  Personally, I

didn’t miss the 600 grit stone.The addition of Shapton Pro and Naniwa Chocera waterstones cut for the Edge Pro go a long way to improve its versatility.

 

Using the three Shapton Pro stones, I was able to easily thin a 24cm Kikuichi Ginox wa-

gyuto to ten degrees and add a fifteen degree microbevel.  The ten-degree bevel is

satisfyingly even and the 5K stone left an almost mirror finish.  I did notice that the

Shapton Pro 220 was wearing down quickly, and needed to be flattened twice during the

process.  The other two Shapton Pros did not show any wear.

 

Flattening of all of the stones, both stock EP and the custom stones, was done with a

DMT Dia-Sharp D8XX diamond plate, the same one I use for full size waterstones.

 

I felt that the Shapton 220 was wearing too quickly, so I followed a suggestion from Rob

Babcock on KnifeForums.com and mounted a 6" x 2" DMT D6X Dia-Sharp plate to an EP stone

blank to use as the coarse stone for profiling.  I was able to thin a 24cm Kagayaki

VG-10 gyuto in the same way as the Kikuichi, but without incurring the excessive wear on

the Shapton Pro 220.  Examination of the scratch patterns on the bevel under 15x

magnification, showed that the jump from the DMT to the Shapton Pro 2K appears to be the

same as the Shapton Pro 220 to 2K.  My thanks to Ron, as this suggestion has worked

extremely well.

 

Since thinning and adding a microbevel, I’ve found that a once-a-week touchup of the

microbevel with the 5K Shapton Pro has been sufficient to maintain the edge.

 

Pros:

 

- Excellent results can be obtained by an inexperienced sharpener the first time it is

used;

 

- Because the sharpening angle can be accurately set, precise thinning behind the edge

and creating microbevels are within the grasp of anyone;

 

- Availability of upgraded waterstone choices through third-party sources.

 

Cons:

 

- Unless care is taken to use a protective layer of tape or to keep the table on which

the side of the knife sits clear of grit, abrasions and scuffs may mar the side of the

knife;

 

- Third-party Shapton Pro and Naniwa Chocera stones are expensive compared to the stock

Edge Pro stones;

 

- Must be used on a flat, non-porous surface for the suction cups to adhere properly.

 

Summary.

 

In my opinion, the Edge Pro Apex is preferable to freehand sharpening for a beginning

sharpener interested in producing a consistent bevel angle and consequently an extremely

sharp edge.

 

Even if you are an accomplished freehand sharpener, you may find it useful for ensuring

the initial bevel is ground flat and at a constant angle during thinning.

 

I just received my Tadatsuna White Steel 240mm Wa Gyuto in the mail the other day and after a few days of playing, I thought I'd write up a review and post some pics.

Dimensions:
Spine Thickness (heal): 2.24mm
Spine Thicknee (halfway): 1.85mm
Spine Thickness (1" from tip): 1.3mm
Height (heal to spine): 49mm
Height (halfway): 39mm
Height (1" from tip): 23mm
Balance: 2" in front of handle

Initial Impressions:
When I first received this knife, I was impressed. It didn't seem amazing, but it seemed like a solid knife. The finish on the blade was my main concern; it seemed quite rough. I assumed this was the lacquer and immediately decided to remove it with acetone. This made the knife look and feel a whole lot better. I'm starting to like it more at this point
Next was the thinness. It's not as super thin as I thought it would be (although my only other gyuto to compare it to is a Takeda, so I'm not really saying it's a mighty gyuto by an means). That being said, it is quite thin and feels good in hand. The edge ootb, was surprisingly good as it could push cut paper, but I decided to take it to the stones. It went to my Takenoko, Naniwa 10k SS, then Chromium Oxide charged leather strop. The edge was awesome and I was getting really excited to use this knife.

Fit and Finish:
The overall F&F of this knife are quite good. The choil was rounded and the spine was not too sharp. I decided to polish them anyway to give a smoother feel. My one issue is there is a small scratch on the back side of the blade from a slight over-grind. It's not a big deal, but it is noticeable. The octagon handle on this knife is probably one of my favorite features. It is quite robust and very comfortable. I thought I would not like such a large handle at first, but it gives you great control without having to hold it tightly at all. The saya fits beautifully and has a very nice shape.

First Use:
Wow. This knife is very sharp and the geometry is insane. It is a joy to use this knife. It is incredibly nimble and precise. It's not quite as thin as my Takeda, but the geometry is far superior. I just love the blade shape. The only thing that I have to get used to is the fact that it is an unclad knife; this definitely give it a different 'feel.' Clad knives seem to provide some shock absorption with their softer exterior steels, but my Tadatsuna seems a bit more brittle and hard. This is not a bad thing by any means, I just have to get used to it. I used it qute a bit the first day and the edge held up quite well. Not as well as AS, but that's to be expected. It still push cut newspaper by the end of the evening. And by the way DC, it's getting a very nice patina already

Overall:
This knife is great and I can't wait to use it some more. The only problem is, it makes me want more knives! I was doing pretty well for a couple months, but the taste of a new knife makes it hard to resist others. Now for some photos!
http://s942.photobucket.com/albums/ ...

-Jordan

Kikuichi Elite Carbon Gyuto 240mm Review

 

As with my other reviews, a quick note – I am a home cook and this knife has only been used in my home kitchen. 

If you, like me, can live with minor fit and finish quibbles, then I feel very confident in recommending this knife to you.  A truly wonderful, no-nonsense performer.  8.5/10.  

I purchased this knife as my entry into the world of carbon steel knives.  I was looking for a carbon steel knife that was a bit longer than my 210mm Tojiro DP Gyuto. Upon Mark’s recommendation, I purchased a 240mm Kikuichi Elite Carbon Gyuto.  

Compared to the Tojiro DP, the Kikuichi cuts nicer, seems to have longer edge retention, and is significantly easier to sharpen.  

Performance - Out of the Box 

First, let’s talk a bit about the knife’s performance fresh out of the box.  

As with other Japanese knives, this knife is much sharper out of the box than anything a first time purchaser is used to. If you have only used European knives in the past, this knife will blow those out of the water.   

Out of the box performance was comparable to that of my Tojiro DP gyuto. I used this knife to prepare one to two meals a day for almost a month before the edge got to the point where I felt it really should be sharpened. That should give you an idea of the edge retention. Note that I did not strop prior to each use (mainly because I wanted to see how long it would take the knife to get “dull”). Even when it reached the point of what I considered to be “dull,” the knife was still sharper than my aunt’s brand new Henckel.  

Sharpening 

It is probably important to note that I am quite new to sharpening. So for any of you out there who are not experienced sharpeners, don’t worry too much – this knife was very easy to sharpen.  

The stones I used were a Chosera 4000, Bester 1200, and Shapton GlassStone 6k.  

The Kikuichi was much easier to sharpen than my Tojiro DP.  It just felt better on the stones. It gripped better and there was more tactile feedback.  

Performance – After Sharpening 

My sharpening skills, since I am a beginner, are not great. That said, I do have the fundamentals down.   

Having used the knife for a bit post-sharpening, the edge I put on it is definitely an improvement over the factory edge. There is a significant boost in performance compared to what it was out of the box – and it was no slouch then either.  In the hands of a more experienced sharpener, I believe that this knife would truly sing.  

Let’s take, for example, dicing an onion. I halve it, make my horizontal slices, vertical slices, and then chop so that there are delicious little diced onion cubes.  Out of the box, making my horizontal slices generally required one push forward and one pull backward.  After a month of use, prior to sharpening the knife, I would need a couple more each way – maybe four to six movements total. Having sharpened the knife, if I am not careful, I will go right through the onion and into my hand in just one push forward!  

Fit and Finish 

On the whole, the fit and finish is solid. I do have a few minor issues with it, but let’s start with the positives.   

Blade geometry looks great. No bends. The knife is blade-heavy, which is fine with me. I have had no issues with its balance. The factory edge was seamless and smooth.  Everything looks and feels as it should. The blade has some nice etched kanji on the right hand side of the blade as well. The choil was a bit sharp, but some sandpaper fixed that right up.  

The handle is very comfortable.  It is black, shows the tang of the knife and has three visible rivets which are flush with the rest of the handle material. There are zero gaps in the handle. The only defect, which is very minor, is about ½ mm of roughness that I found on the top part of the handle. A bit of sandpaper and in under a minute, the issue had been corrected.   

Care of the knife has been very easy. I was initially a bit apprehensive since this is my first carbon knife, but really that was all unwarranted.  When I am using the knife, I just keep a clean dishcloth handy. Whenever I need to put the knife down, I just wipe each side on the cloth first. No problems at all and it takes mere seconds. I have had zero issues with rust.  A nice patina has started to form.  While I don’t have any other carbon knives for a comparison, the Kikuichi is not nearly as reactive as ‘general internet wisdom’ had led me to believe. You can certainly cut and onion or tomato and the knife will –not– rust before your eyes. A nice patina has started to form naturally.

 

The Packaging 

As with every purchase I have made from chefknivestogo.com, the Kikuichi arrived quickly and was very well packed.  

The knife came in a standard knife box – nothing flashy.  

Inside of the box, along with the knife, were a little plastic tip protector and some documentation.  The tip protector was probably helpful for protecting the tip during packaging, but has little to no practical use once the knife is in your hands. The knife, unlike the Tojiro DP, does not come with a plastic knife sheath but instead comes wrapped in some parchment paper (which I discarded).  

The documentation included a nice little sharpening pamphlet with clear, well-written instructions on how to sharpen both double beveled and single bevel knives. This might be useful to beginning sharpeners, but probably will not be of interest to experienced sharpeners.  

In addition to the sharpening pamphlet, there was a piece of paper with a brief history of the Kikuichi company. It made for an interesting read and was a nice touch. The documentation included one other piece of paper. Unfortunately, I have no idea what it says as it is written entirely in Japanese.  

Conclusion 

As stated at the outset, I really like this knife and recommend it. Minor (and I really do mean minor) fit and finish issues aside, this is a wonderful performer. It performs more than decently out of the box, performs wonderfully in the hands of this beginning sharpener, and should be amazing in the hands of one with more skill than I.

Kiritsuke Knives coming soon.

Yes I am going to try and get a good selection of
10 or 12 kiritsuke knives over the next few months. Here are my plans as they
stand. The first will be a couple Doi kiritsukes. Maybe 2
weeks. I am trying to convince Takeda to make some
with a 2 sided edge. He has not said yes yet.
TC Blades is making me a batch. 4 weeks on these is
my guess. Sugimoto has one but it is 300mm and expensive
($700 +) I'm talking to them about a 240 that is cheaper.
Konosuke is going to provide some to me. 6 weeks
for these. Tojiro. I am talking to them. Nothing firm yet.
They will do it if I can buy at least a dozen of them at a time.
Moritakas should be back in stock in a couple weeks
(I hope). I'm going to pick up their damascus kiritsukes shortly as
well.Tadatsuna are on order. A few weeks for
these.

Mark Richmond

www.chefknivestogo.com

New line from Shun.

We were informed that a new line of Shun knives will be made available
for 2010. The Shun Premier line of knives features a very attractive
hammered blade along with a very nice hamon design on the edge. Shun Premier
should be available by March 2010 and we will be the first to have them as soon
as they are released to internet retailers.

Kitchen knife recommendation

Hello,

I am looking for a knife set for my boyfriend for
Christmas and I was wondering if you could recommend anything? I do not want to
spend too much, so I would like a decently priced, reliable knife set. He
is attending school to become a chef, so I would like something that will last a
long time. He does know how to sharpen knives and is right
handed. All he needs is the essential knives, so I'm thinking a set of 6
knives. The portable knife bag would be beneficial, but not
necessary. I would like to spend anywhere from $200 - $500. Thank
you.

Sincerely

Robin


Hi Robin,

Here are a few recommendations:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shun6pcset.html

This shun set you have the option of switching out the
block for the case. Use the drop down box to switch. They are good knives and
would work well for him as a starter set.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tojiro8pcset.html

Tojiro makes excellent knives. You can switch out the
block for the case on this one as well.
Kind Regards,
Mark Richmond

www.chefknivestogo.com

608-232-1137

Nakiri Question

Question:

Hi Mark,

How are you doing? I was browsing thru the forum and saw
one of the post that you are able to mail if to Australia. I would appreciate it
if you can give me a quote on how much it would cost me please including the
knife.

At the moment i am looking at a Nakiri. I read that a Takeda
Nakiri is very highly rated (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/naboas16.html). I am
juggling between these three at the moment, Shun Pro 2 Series Nakiri, Kasumi
Nakiri and the Takeda. I am not too sure which 1 to get at the moment. I am
swaying towards the Shun as i dont know too much about Takeda.

If it is
not too much to ask, can you give me your opinion please? The most important
aspect for me is which one out of the 3 retains its sharpness the longest. and
is the sharpest.

I am an aspiring chef in training who is right handed.

I am using a Wusthof Ikon 8" chefs knife and i sharpen it with a water
stone of 1000/3000 grit. But have develop an obsession with Japanese
knives.

I dont mind a single bevel as i know of a Japanese chef who can
teach me how to use and sharpen it the correct way. I was being told it is
difficult to use effectively without any experience.

I do alot of prep
work such as slicing & dicing onions, cucumbers, tomatoes, capcicums,
zucchini, cabbages and other vegetables as well as precision cuts. I dont want a
santoku as i prefer the shape of a Nakiri. I read a Nakiri is used for the same
jobs as a santoku. Please correct me if i am wrong as i am very new.

Answer:

 

I really like the Takedas for someone like you.

They are light, use
aogami super steel which is an excellent steel with good edge retention and you
can put a really sharp edge on the knife. The have a 50/50 edge on them so
sharpening is a little easier. The final reason I like them is they are hand
made and unique. You'll likely be the only one who has one in your kitchen and
they are fun and personal knives because of this.

These are reactive
carbon knives. You need to wipe them off after you are done and they will
develop a patina on the edge and will rust if you leave them wet. I assume you
know this.

The other knives you listed are good as well and if you wanted
a non reactive knife either the Shun or the Kasumi would work fine. They're just
not as special or unusual as the hand made Takeda.

Mark Richmond

Chefknivestogo

Knife Sharpening Angles

Most people have no idea what angle(s) they use.

There is a difference between measuring an existing angle and setting an angle to perform sharpening. The table is useful, but ultimately the standard is actually measuring the angle. The Edgepro can be used for this, but has a limited range without modification and is not as accurate as the Gizmo, because it doesn't measure the actual angle, but rather you read the mark on the vertical shaft. It doesn't take into account the amount of overhang of the blade edge from the platform for instance. It can't go as acute as the Gizmo or freehand sharpening and the measures aren't as precise or as accurate.

If the edge is convex - either purposely or accidentally, you don't have a single measurement, but rather measurements along the convex curve, so it's easy to measure an angle, but it isn't really the edge of the edge you are measuring. So a truly flat edge tends to be a more acute actual angle and will have those characteristics - more delicate but sharper in the sense of being thinner at the edge. Because of this, you probably should compare a true flat edge with an even thinner rounded edge. So a typical 7º freehand edge is really more like a 12º Gizmo or EP edge. Of course results will vary with the ability of the sharpener to maintain angular precision.

If you switch stones freehanding you have to remember the angle with muscle memory and the accuracy of your muscle memory switching stones introduces an error in angular consistency. Less angular consistency means more strokes to compensate for the variances. Muscle memory improves with practice. With a more precise guided stroke, switching stones doesn't introduce this error (even with variances in stone thicknesses, this can be corrected with the Gizmo by actually measuring it). It at least significantly reduces it to a negligible level.

With both the Gizmo and EP, you can actually make small adjustments to improve the precision between stones, although practically this isn't really necessary most of the time, as you can see the alignment of the stone and the bevel within a couple strokes.

Ken

Shapton Glass Stones Review

I recently had a chance to use the Shapton 1000 and 4000 Glass Stones have to be some of the best value sharpening stones out there.  I have used Norton, Shapton Pro, and some natural water stones.    Shapton Glass Stones are similiar to the Shapton Pros They feel very similar but are much cheaper.  You can't go wrong with the price for these stones. The only downside is the thickness of these things.  They are so thin that if you are used to not using a base or stone holder it starts to get annoying due to the fact that there is less than a half inch of stone.  One other side note is despite the fact that they are called Glass Stones and they have a glass side, that is not the side you sharpen on!  I made this mistake when I first recieved them.  Overall for a home cook or someone looking for an affordable  stone that can put a nice edge on their knives these would work great.
Ryan K

Kikuichi Inox Honyaki Wa Gyuto

 

The Kikuichi Inox Honyaki Wa-Gyuto  is a fun knife!  I own quite a few knives and this thing is my go-to. I use it to to do all my herb chiffonade because it gets it super fine.  I also use it to slice and dice any onion, the knife gets so sharp that it glides right through all veggies, I have never had a knife that could handle onions like this.  What impressed me most with this knife though is the thinness of the blade. Other veggies that would make most knives wedge(like my Takeda Gyuto) don't even slow the Kikuichi Inox and allows me to keep a straight even cut.
It is hard to find anything I don't like about this knife, it sharpens easily and holds that edge for a long time.  It is very light but well balanced and has a great fit and finish. The one downside has to be handling protein. It isn't an all purpose knife like some gyutos, because of the thinness it cannot handle bones. I don't prefer it for butchering meat.  With meat it tends to stick when removing silver skin and fat, not the worst knife I have used and it will work if needed. I really recommend this knife for cooks it after 3 months I still can't get enough of it.

Ryan K